Author Topic: Relievers - Trade  (Read 141 times)

Indians GC

  • Graham Crevoiserat
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Relievers - Trade
« on: 4 Sep 2018 5:02:10 PM »
Does anybody have issues with lower tier relievers receiving save experiences? On my sim, the only two pitchers designated for saves are Betances (11 save opportunities) and Familiar (8 save opportunities). Although some of the below are blown holds, I do have a lot of save opportunities go to other relievers and I am unsure as to the reason. Does anybody else have this issue?

- Hart: 11
- Street: 7
- Paredes: 5
- Blevins: 5

And on that note, I am looking for relief help. If you have any relievers that you are looking to move and have cleared waivers - please let me know.

Phillies TP

  • Tom Parker
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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #1 on: 4 Sep 2018 8:32:16 PM »
I've had a ton of that as well. I think it comes from having guys listed in multiple roles and getting used earlier in games as a result, but I haven't gone through the boxscores to figure out exactly what's happening. Let me know if you figure it out, and I'll do likewise.

Pirates LW

  • Larry Waters
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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #2 on: 5 Sep 2018 8:55:22 AM »
It's common. Pirates have 8 guys with saves. If your primary closer is listed elsewhere it's possible he was used in that game prior to the 9th inning. Also, when the Closer is tired, the game will find another reliever to pitch the last inning.
Larry Waters
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Cubs JD

  • Jason Daseler
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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #3 on: 5 Sep 2018 9:21:21 AM »
Yeah, I've got 3 guys all with more than 10 saves.  2 were expected as I have a guy I like closing versus lefties and another one versus righties, but the third came out of nowhere.  He's not listed on the closer depth chart either - he's my long reliever and mop-up guy.

Indians GC

  • Graham Crevoiserat
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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #4 on: 5 Sep 2018 10:01:36 AM »
I am glad to know that it is not just me. I just wish they would put relievers in that weren't my mop-up relievers. Maybe I need to expand my Closer depth chart beyond Betances and Familia and see if that helps.

Phillies TP

  • Tom Parker
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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #5 on: 5 Sep 2018 10:27:39 AM »
It's really weird. I just went the other direction and super-simplified my bullpen depth chart to the following:

CL vs LHB: Wade Davis
CL vs RHB: Wade Davis
Set vs LHB: Ryan Buchter, Blaine Hardy
Set vs RHP: Edwin Diaz, Arodys Vizcaino
Long: Brad Boxberger, Blaine Hardy
Mopup: Michael Lorenzen, Luiz Gohara

I restarted our season and simmed a full year.

I ended up with a clear first closer (Davis, 28-for-32) but Lorenzen (#1 mopup) still got the second-most attempts (9-for-12, with a staggeringly bad 8.37 ERA). Lorenzen only made 42 appearances for 47.1 IP, so ending up with 9 saves is an awful lot. None of them were 3-inning blowout saves either - most were in tight games. Just paging through some boxscores, it looks like the computer has a habit of leaving in my setup/closing relievers for too many pitches, which leaves the bullpen exhausted and mopup guys soaking up innings in key spots for days after. (For what it's worth, my pitching "sliders" on the manager tendencies screen are set to normal across the board. I'm also working with an 8-man bullpen since I didn't reset rosters to pre-Sept. 1.)
« Last Edit: 5 Sep 2018 10:31:40 AM by Phillies TP »

Phillies TP

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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #6 on: 5 Sep 2018 11:51:51 AM »
OK, here goes my best guess at what's happening with the Cleveland bullpen. Profile is as follows:

CL vs LHB: Betances, Familia
CL vs RHB: Betances, Familia
Set vs LHB: Familia, Oh, Blevins
Set vs RHB: Familia, Blevins, Oh
Long: Oh, Blevins, Paredes
Mopup: Street, Castro, Hart

I'm operating on the assumption that you haven't changed the bullpen profile much since rosters expanded on September 1. Otherwise your mileage may vary. :)

The DMB manual says "In most game situations, the computer manager uses the first available pitcher in the appropriate list whenever a reliever is called for (excluding players on the reserve roster)." Setup relievers are "generally used in the seventh inning or later in close games," while closers are "generally used in the eighth or ninth inning when the team has a lead in a close game."

So Betances gets the save opportunities whenever he's not tired. After that, the computer looks to the next guy on the closer list, Familiar. But Familia is listed as top setup vs LHB and RHB in addition to second closer vs LHB and RHB. If he's available (i.e., not tired) in a close game (up, down, or tied), he's almost certainly been used already unless your starter goes deep into the game. As a result, he'll almost never be available for closing situations.

After that is where it gets strange. When the computer manager (CM) doesn't find anyone available in the closers' list, it doesn't seem to look back through the lists in priority order (first to setup, then long, then mopup). Instead, it finds that next guy way too often in the mopup list.

My guess is it's looking for the pitcher that is the least tired. Your relievers with the least appearances are Huston Street (#2 mopup, 34 appearances but 10 of those in save/hold situations) and Donnie Hart (#3 mopup, 35 appearances but 14 of those in save/hold situations). I've got the same thing with the Phils' lone "mopup only" guy, Michael Lorenzen (21 relief appearances - he's been up for 9 weeks - with 6 in save/hold situations), and my other reliever that doesn't appear anywhere on the setup/closer lists, Brad Boxberger (46 relief appearances, 15 in save/hold situations).

I'm not sure there's a good fix for it. I think you're basically left having to decide whether "holding back" one stronger long reliever for these "out of closers" situations is worth having him pitch fewer innings overall. It certainly puts a premium on bullpen depth, as it's dangerous to hide a weak pitcher strictly for mopup/long work due to the risk he becomes the CM's preferred option when you run out of closers.

Can anyone tell I'm procrastinating on something else I should be working on?  ;D

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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #7 on: 5 Sep 2018 12:01:22 PM »
Makes sense, especially when I apply it to my situation. 

Indians GC

  • Graham Crevoiserat
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Re: Relievers - Trade
« Reply #8 on: 10 Sep 2018 2:21:36 PM »
Thank you for that in-depth look. What you said definitely makes sense. I am going to try and fiddle with my depth chart again and see if it helps.